Mortgage Connects an MGIC Podcast
On Mortgage Connects, we explore the minds and experiences of mortgage industry and lending innovators to bring our audience candid viewpoints on critical mortgage industry developments and influential insights about the unique challenges that lie ahead. Our hosts interview top mortgage professionals and thought leaders across the industry – from proven LOs to established CEOs – who have wide-ranging expertise to provide the best insights into market trends, best practices, marketing and referral strategies, training opportunities, and the future of the mortgage industry.
Mortgage Connects an MGIC Podcast
Turning social media into a mortgage marketing powerhouse
We decode the art of social media for mortgage professionals with First International Bank & Trust’s Kayla Kallander, a.k.a. the "mortgage meteorologist," as she navigates LinkedIn, Instagram and TikTok. Kayla’s experience and deep understanding of these platforms provide a treasure trove of insights on capitalizing social media’s benefits, and its potential to disrupt traditional search engines, to help you maximize your social media posting.
Kayla cuts through the noise and delves into the pillars of effective social media posting: education and connection. Our conversation explores the importance of showcasing personal interests to foster connections and humanize your online persona, making you irresistible to potential clients. From scheduling posts and optimizing hashtags to adapting strategies based on performance, our episode is brimming with actionable tips.
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Hello everybody and welcome to Mortgage Connects. I have Kayla Callender with me today from First International Bank Trust. Kayla is known as the mortgage meteorologist, helping prepare clients for the uncertain and always changing scenarios of buying help. Kayla is devoted to her mortgage clients and referral partners, ensuring they receive elite service, inspiring education and constant communication throughout the home loan journey. She's an ad-bid social media connector and loves the ability to reach a multitude of people virtually to create relationships. She enjoys the ability to coach clients through the psychology and the purpose behind content creation.
Speaker 1:Kayla is a radiance to any stage she speaks on, as she passionately shares sales and social media advice, from small groups of her coffee to large gatherings on stage. Kayla, I love so much of that bio I can't even tell you because first I love the meteorologist. I was like that is the coolest way to say that. Well, you got to stand out somehow. Yes, I love it and I love how much you're embracing, from a social standpoint, even just to start off based on your bio, just the ability to create a relationship with somebody as our world has evolved.
Speaker 2:Yes, and as it continues to evolve, it's evergreen and always changing, and you never know where you're going to connect with someone next, and that could be social.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I love it. I love it. Thank you so much for being on with MGRC today. We're so happy to have you.
Speaker 2:I am honored to be here. I know I'm in great presence. You guys always offer so much education. It's constantly in my email and people really look up to you guys as a valid, trustworthy resource. So thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much I heard about you through social, so that's how, one of the ways we got connected and through your account manager, and I thought what a great way to exemplify the example of utilizing social in a positive way. That can sometimes be really scary to people. So let's just start with the basics and say when did you start using social and which platforms?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was one of the early adopters of LinkedIn. So when I first started as a mortgage loan officer, there was this thing that I thought you know what? This is a way for me to post closings and post celebrations and education, and a lot of the times I was posting just the closings or congratulations and what I noticed was happening and this is back, stephanie, in like 2014, I noticed that I would go out and I'd be out and about in the community and someone would say, oh, you're the LinkedIn girl. And it hit me then that people knew what my job was and what I was doing. That I didn't even know. I thought that we could have relied on Facebook and Instagram, but it felt more personal at the time those platforms. So what I was discovering at a young age gosh, nine years ago was the powerful tool that LinkedIn had, and so that's where I first started my technical, my social media journey.
Speaker 1:So way back, I wouldn't have guessed that. But what I read I was thinking about the question I was like, oh, I wonder what she's going to say. So that's really cool. I know that it's such a great way to grow connections and, like you said, the way that your little web grows without you even knowing people. You almost feel like you know somebody sometimes before you even meet and you're like, oh yeah, oh wait, I didn't really see you.
Speaker 2:Well and some of us compare it, we talked before others you know people in social. It's like you almost feel like when you see someone on social they're a celebrity until you meet them. Although it's not like celebrity status, you really get to know somebody because you're seeing everything they do. But what's really cool about that is you can walk up to someone and feel like you've known them forever and talk about their dogs or their children, and it's such an easy segue to just start a business or a relationship with someone because they already know you.
Speaker 1:Yes, I really really like that and I like the aspect of kind of getting to know people. It can be intimidating to meet people, so being able to make that almost immediate connection, like we both have dogs, I mean that's. It's simple, as it is Very cool. When you talk about platforms, and LinkedIn being the first one, are there others that you're utilizing either more so today instead of and, and why?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I leaned into Instagram quite a bit and then came TikTok. So one of the reasons that I've leaned most heavily into Instagram was because I liked all of the things that it offered. It combines so many platforms into one. You've got your posting of pictures or solid, just general, to kind of like your story or your grid. That's kind of like Facebook. Right, you've got stories in there, like Snapchat. You can do reels, like TikTok, and on top of it you can have a link at the top of your screen, just like LinkedIn. So what I love about Instagram is you get all of these platforms, it seems, like, into one. So that's what I've been leaning heavily into myself.
Speaker 1:Are you still utilizing the others or you're pretty much predominantly focusing, because I know there is connections to other ones?
Speaker 2:you know, like when you post one place at almost like Cascades, do you just use one versus the other now, or I use them all because it's all different audiences, different people, and so because I started LinkedIn so heavily right away, I have more followers there.
Speaker 2:Instagram I can reach different target markets, just like TikTok I feel like people go to, and I think I read a survey I think Kristen Messerly had a Gen Z article come out that 70% of people go to Instagram to search, and it makes me think Google might not even be an option in the future, because people are really leaning into these platforms to go and search things, whether it's you're looking for how to do your nails for Halloween, or maybe you're looking for tips to be a home buyer, so there's all of these ways to search. So I feel like I'm leaning heavily into Instagram and TikTok for Reels, but also leaning into LinkedIn for education, and, of course, I cross post on all of them, even to the point of posting on my Facebook page too, because we've all had Facebook since what you know, the over, the years 2004 or something.
Speaker 2:Yeah so you've got connections there, or maybe you post your story. So you really just there's no right or wrong answer, it's what works for you.
Speaker 1:You know it's a way to think about something, but everyone being, it used to be a Google search away, but now it is just a search. And how are you being represented on the platforms that you're on and are you telling the right story to the people that you want to?
Speaker 2:see it Right. And then you have to think about it's who's following this, who is going to be seeing this the most, and that's where you decide what you put out there.
Speaker 1:So it's probably a two-fold question, but are there others that you foresee using in the future, or is it? You know, where you're at right now seems like a good solution, and as we continue to evolve and new ones come out there, you may adjust them.
Speaker 2:It's a great question. I think everyone is a little resistant to change, right? You know it's like, oh gosh, I have to learn something new now, and gosh, we already have all these platforms. But I think YouTube and YouTube shorts is something that most people should get into. So, like, if I'm on, you know, certain podcasts, will you know, plug it there. But essentially it's a way for people to search. It's a way for people to go back and watch or be educated. I think that everything else is going to just be ever changing, right? Instagram is going to come out tomorrow with a different algorithm for all we know, and so I I'm leaning into the ones that I already know, but being very open and optimistic about the ones that maybe I could learn more about, and that would be YouTube.
Speaker 1:Okay, and for for others out there. For when you talk about YouTube shorts, is that any different than the regular YouTube?
Speaker 2:No, it's essentially built within YouTube, so instead of searching, you know, long form video, this would be short, so that it's kind of like when you're on TikTok and Instagram and you're scrolling. That's where the shorts would lie, so that's kind of where I would want to lean.
Speaker 1:Okay, that makes sense, and we talked about advancements in technology and where to look at. You and I have talked briefly about chat GPT, but can you tell me a little bit about how you feel about it and how it could relate to our industry?
Speaker 2:You know, chat GPT is something that I feel it's a really easy thing to use once you start using it. But it's really easy to take out your own genuine, authentic creativity and so you'll see people.
Speaker 2:You know, I've heard people that recently had a conversation with someone that they said that one of their clients that they coach used chat GPT to define, like, their goals. And it's like there's such a way that you can use this for the better that if you're not using it the right way, it's only going to hurt you. And so I will use chat GPT, for example, if I am teaching a course on social media and I'm saying, you know, I know what I want to talk about, but maybe I just need to get some creativity flowing. Or maybe I want to know what are some issues people have, maybe that I'm not even aware of. So I will use it as something to kind of spur some ideas. But if you're truly copying and pasting, people on the other end will be able to know. But it is a useful tool for really like just kind of breaking that barrier, of kind of being stuck is how I feel it's beneficial.
Speaker 1:It's a jumping point right, like you can use it to not be so stuck and unable. I think for me, being a list maker and a ridiculous like perfectionist, that I'm like sometimes terrified to start things right, but once, if you have a way to get your brain starting to think about how it can really resonate for you, it makes it less intimidating. I think that's just.
Speaker 2:It's a roadmap, it's a starting point, and I think that's what most people have difficulties with in their life is just starting. So it can be useful for you the right way.
Speaker 1:Okay, I like that. Let's pivot back a little bit more to social media and some of those channels. What pillars do you talk a little bit about? Education and connection. What pillars do you utilize when you focus on posting?
Speaker 2:Pillars are something that I think people just it's such a simple tool to use but they don't think about it when you're wondering because guess what? We just talked about getting stuck. This is the same way. When people go to post, it's this thing where they feel stuck. They're like I don't know what to post. I don't know what people want to know about real estate. So for me, what we do every single time, that I probably quarterly I'll look at this, but I will have pillars. What are pillars? Those are things that I want to talk about. For example, if I want to know something's working.
Speaker 2:For a while I was posting on Fargo, north Dakota, weather, mortgage and my dogs, because those are the things that I could poke fun at our weather People didn't really understand how cold it was. Then mortgage, obviously, because that's what I do and what I'm passionate about, but by also implementing my dogs for rescue dogs. That's just something people don't typically see. But you can connect with others when you talk about these things. So I would rotate a mortgage reel, a reel about the weather, a reel about dogs. What I would do is I would play with those and see if I connected with people more or if I got more engagement, then what I would do is maybe I would take out maybe the Fargo weather piece, and now I'm going to talk about our late cabin, because people want to know what happens in the state of Minnesota on vacation, so just things like that. So by having your pillars, maybe it's your kids, maybe you're a soccer coach, maybe on the side you play adult volleyball league those things allow you to connect, because Stephanie sometimes the best connections or your next client is not at your job, it could be at your local restaurant, it could be at your kids, like I said, soccer game. So by having these pillars and posting about them, people feel like they get to know you without necessarily being right in front of you at that soccer game.
Speaker 1:Exactly right. So when you do that, you're able to do more of what works for you and where your engagement really is. I love that you look at that on a quarterly basis, because then you're not just doing it because you said you're going to do it. You're really doing what matters Right, or at least make an impact.
Speaker 2:You're humanizing yourself, you're making yourself as a human. I'm just not Kayla this mortgage lender. I'm Kayla who is married and lives here and has these dogs. I really like this type of food. You just get to know people and those are your pillars. So I think just looking at those and testing them out is really helpful to just getting started.
Speaker 1:Now, is there a certain time that you recommend posting them? Does that vary per platform?
Speaker 2:I think it varies per platform and what kind of audience. So whether you're looking at like a Gen Z or millennial, or maybe you're in law and you're posting something about you work with, maybe retired people or just depends on your audience. But the algorithms that I've looked into have always shown that in the mornings you get the most connections. Weekends not as much, because people aren't really scrolling. So it just kind of depends. I play around with it. Sometimes I have good luck at 5 30 in the morning, sometimes not at all. So it truly depends. But I would say Instagram would be kind of early mornings. I would say, in my opinion, tiktok maybe between like 9 and 11. But again, it just depends on that day, depends on the day in the audience.
Speaker 1:So don't get stuck in a. I have to do it every day at 5 30.
Speaker 2:No, and there's a cool feature where you can auto set it. So before they had this, I would be like getting up early in the morning, like if I was up late and I couldn't get a workout in, I'd set my alarm so that I could post at 5 30. Where now you can set it where you don't have to be if you can't get up.
Speaker 1:What? Can you talk a little bit about that? I think that everyone's always looking for not necessarily a shortcut, but whether there's hacks or there's different tools in which to post that make this a little bit more simplistic, do you guys know us, and what are they?
Speaker 2:For Instagram, you can go and set in your advanced settings. For example, you can go in and put to schedule a reel, so you can get it together. It's all good to go. You've got the reel, you've got all the editing, you've got the hashtags, the content, the dialogue, and then you can put schedule for tomorrow at 2 PM. That way you don't have to be on top of it and you can schedule those out and it's truly just one simple tool in your advanced settings. And that is Uber helpful and so some of the other platforms have that as well. If you just go into the scheduled part, dive in there and just give yourself a break so you can have a little gray, so you don't always have to remember.
Speaker 1:You're talking about hashtags. Do you find that those work and, if so, how many should people utilize?
Speaker 2:It's funny. I watched a reel the other day and someone was asking do you still use hashtags? And they were saying it doesn't work and some were saying it does. So I find it's helpful Because if someone's looking, I'm just going to use this home buying 101. They might still go search those hashtags. So if I'm putting that to my post, I'm just helping out the actual ability for that reel or post to be seen. Now I attended social con in LA back in April and one of the things that we talked about was not having too many hashtags and it feels like there's always this algorithm you're trying to understand. But for me I say use them, use 10 to 12 and see where it goes and the pillars use those, see if people gain traction and just test it out.
Speaker 1:And how do you see the analytics then? Are you able to for the hashtag that they're posting about? Can you see anybody that looked up the home buyer 101 for you? Or is it just in general that you see those numbers, because I know I've seen that that's the amount of views that hashtag?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean you can see how many people are searching it. But also if you can go to your insights for example, on a reel, you can see if you have followers finding your reel or non-followers. And now I get notifications on Facebook and Instagram that says so and so has followed you from your reel, so that I can see at least helpful to know. Ok, well, maybe something I put in that reel, that hashtag was helpful, so then I'll go back and kind of examine it. But if you can go into your insights, there's so much information in there in your Instagram that shows you a little bit of detail. I'm not sure about the hashtags, I've never seen that, but just like you said, you're right, you can see how many people are following a certain hashtag.
Speaker 1:Well, and you talked about Google going away. If you're using a hashtag, it's kind of a really concrete way in which to find information.
Speaker 2:Right, it is. You don't have to worry about being the first one at the top. So with hashtags, it's just an easily identifiable way for people to get a hold of you.
Speaker 1:OK, so I think one of the things that allows people these sound like great ideas and then they sound like so simple but social has this negative connotation for a lot of individuals whether it's scary. What are some of the common misconceptions about social media and what are some of the highlights that you would like to make about it?
Speaker 2:Well, first, if you were a spot on, it has had this negative feeling with it for years of you know people were posting, you know, selfies, like that was a thing, these selfies, and so people would think of social media as some type of photo that you put up and that was it, or it was just about pretty photos. And so I think there's still this unconscious thought that people have that social media is just for attention, it's for like, just getting attention. Well, you know what it is for attention? In a way, because we want to attract people right now, ourselves, our product. Now, what I would say to people is it's not something that should be looked at as a negative. It should be looked at as you trying to engage people, you trying to gain, like a billboard you see billboards all over your city is, but it has a different feel than, say, social media. Well, the difference is that that connotation is just a different perspective. So, the more that we all get comfortable with social media, the more we see people getting business, clients etc. From, let's just say, instagram, the more comfortable we are with it.
Speaker 2:And I guess for me, the way that I became comfortable was if I'm putting out education for free. You know I'm not paying for a billboard, I'm not paying for a magazine. I'm putting out education for free to help someone. And if that means showing my face so that people know who it is that's helping, so be it. The moment people can get over you know, basically, having this big mirror looking back at you, you know the reason that you utilize that is so people recognize your face. You know what I mean, because if you're giving out this information and you're just behind a computer, you're not going to get any sales, you're not going to connect with individuals. So for me, I think if you come at it as like a education or helping people or engaging with other like minded individuals, it's a lot easier to get over that, that nervousness. In my opinion.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that that's really true. What advice would you give people that haven't really embraced the social like how do they get started without making it feel like a completely overwhelming task to take on?
Speaker 2:You know it's daunting because it's paralysis by analysis. Right, there's so many different platforms. There's so many different algorithms. My advice is to start with one platform, start with one, make your profile public and start with your pillars. What are three things I really just want to talk about? What are three things that I can put out in the world to help people and challenge yourself to do maybe one of those pillars a week and just hold yourself accountable?
Speaker 2:One of the things that I really had to get over, stephanie, that I was. Just it was costing me time. It was just exhausting with. I wanted my reel to be perfect. I didn't want any flubbups. I didn't want anything to come off where I didn't know what I was talking about or I had to look down at a piece of paper. What would happen is I would record it 10 times and never use it.
Speaker 2:But the most authentic videos that you put out there are just. They don't have to be long. They could be 20 seconds long giving one piece of advice and just keeping it. As my friend says, simple, stupid. Pretend you're talking to a fourth grader, because you know, in our business, for example, of mortgage and real estate, it's really easy for us to just start spitting things out and feeling like we have to just give all this information in a video. But if you can just narrow it down, focus on you know, one platform, one topic. Just try it in one take. It's a lot easier to digest because otherwise you're just putting so much pressure on yourself.
Speaker 1:Well, and people don't have time to really sit and listen, so having those long videos aren't really a good thing anymore.
Speaker 2:Right, and it's what? 8.3, I'm sorry, 3.8 seconds, before someone scrolls again. So you know 8 seconds. So that could be an old stat. We know things change, but that's the last I heard is that's how much attention you have to grab. I feel like it should be shorter If I know it's like one, two, one, you know, but I'm like, oh, no, yeah, not a dog, no. But it's like don't, don't get so into the weeds, just be yourself and keep it short and sweet. You talked a little bit about.
Speaker 1:You were recording a lot. You know you were doing 10 takes. Do you utilize any tools to help you edit or to improve your posts once you make them?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so there were some comments that when you make a reel, for example, within the platform that you're using, it can be seen more. It can be Instagram would see that you're using all the tools within it, so then it would plug it more. Now I can't say whether that's true or false, but I kept that in the back of my head. Okay, if I edit it in there, just a thought. But I think there's something that I use that's called captions. Have you ever heard of captions? I have, so that is really user-friendly when it comes to recording, and then it gets rid of any breaks or pauses. It adds the caption. You can even change the language, you can change the law.
Speaker 2:I was having coffee with a title company last week and he's like Kayla, we can change it so that if someone's in the office and we are not, let's just say, great at speaking Spanish we can record this and put it back to them, so even using it. For that was really cool to hear. They even have this thing, stephanie, where it looks like you're looking at the screen, but you're looking at your phone reading, so you can't tell that you're glancing down. It's crazy. It's amazing what they do, but I think captions is like 10 bucks a month. That's probably one of the easiest ones to utilize.
Speaker 1:That's good tips for everyone listening today as we close out and look are there any last pieces of advice that you would give, whether that's somebody that hasn't fully embraced it, that's resistant, or looking to make that mark next year, as we really need to get back to the basics and make sure we're relevant in front of people.
Speaker 2:All I can think of when I think of social media is there's that thought of okay, you're just posting, you're posting, you're posting, and it's more than that. The one takeaway that I would want to leave with people is that social media is supposed to be social. You should be not just posting, you should be engaging with people. You should be commenting, liking, sharing, asking for a Zoom coffee, reaching out to those in your industry. I can't tell you how many times that I've connected with people in my industry because I liked their photo of their child or I asked which doggie daycare they took their fur baby to. It's literally like you networking just within social. If you're thinking that you should just post and then X out, you're doing it wrong. You'll want to make sure that you engage, because content is what creates those conversations. You just have to make sure that you are enforcing them and that you're putting in the effort to engage with people as well.
Speaker 1:I think that you couldn't have said that any better. I really think that, even as you spoke about it being intimidating, being able to relate to people you don't have to fake or think about liking, engaging, commenting or asking questions really allows you to be yourself and almost get started dipping the toe in. You can do it backwards.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and that's just it too. You know what it's like when someone makes a comment on your posts Like great topic, I really learned a lot, versus even a like it really touches your soul a little bit Like wow, I'm providing something good and that comment can go a long way. And so I try to be a little bit more aware. When I comment, like I want it to be genuine and from me. And you know, you just never know where that conversation will go.
Speaker 1:I don't want you to do a good job at that, because you did it to one of mine and I was like, oh, that was so sweet. Oh, I'm so glad. So good job and kudos to you, kayla. Thank you so much for today. I hope that our listeners talk a lot from it. I know that I did, and I even use it today, but not enough. So thank you so much for everything you provided us.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me. I can't wait to hear about the amazing podcasts and things that you guys do to help others as well.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much. Have a good one. Sure Thanks for listening. For all the latest industry insights, subscribe to Mortgage Connects on Apple Stitcher, google Podcasts, spotify, amazon Music or simply go to mortgageconnectscom.