Mortgage Connects an MGIC Podcast

Growing your business through the lens of Instagram (IG)

May 14, 2021 MGIC MI
Mortgage Connects an MGIC Podcast
Growing your business through the lens of Instagram (IG)
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Chelsea Peitz dives into the essentials you should consider when building your personal brand on Instagram, from what to post and where to post it. Don't know the difference between a reel, story or IGTV? Tune in to learn more! She also discusses the benefits to using each of the different video content formats on the IG platform. 

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Stephanie Budnik (00:02):
Hello, and welcome to Mortgage Connects by M G I C, bringing you the latest insights from top mortgage professionals around the industry. I'm your host, Stephanie Budnick, and today I'll be talking to Chelsea Pipes. She's the National Director of social sales for Fidelity National Financial, and a nationally recognized real estate keynote speaker who teaches sales professionals how to leverage social media and technology to build a powerful personal brand and develop content that generates real leads. She's a national social selling coach and speaker from the top title insurance sales executives Nationwide, who has developed one of the only curriculums focused on using social platforms today. She merges old school strategies with new school technologies to teach others how to become more human by using technology. She's a frequent podcast and livestream guest sharing actual insights and toxic to help individuals develop a powerful personal brand. She is a mom to her eight year old son, Mason, and a wife to her husband Brian, of 18 years.

Stephanie Budnik (01:03):
Her favorite place to visit is Napa, enjoying a glass of big, bold Cabernet. Welcome, Chelsea. Thanks for coming on today. We have Chelsea here, and Chelsea, I wanted to talk to you a little bit about Instagram. I know that it's becoming a lot more prominent today and I hear all about it, but people are really scared to use it. And so I think the first thing that I really wanna talk about, because previously I've spoken a lot about social and we talked about LinkedIn and Facebook, but not as much Instagram and it's just becoming really prevalent today. So can you talk to me a little bit about how people can start using Instagram for business?

Chelsea Pipes (01:42):
Absolutely, and I would've to agree with you, and I'm somebody who uses Instagram every day, all day, and it can be very overwhelming. There are basically five or six different platforms all rolled into Instagram, and it's always changing, always evolving. And so it's certainly can feel very overwhelming to keep up with all of that, especially if you're used to a Facebook and/or a LinkedIn environment. It is different. So I just wanna let everyone know that it's perfectly normal for you to feel a bit overwhelmed and intimidated by Instagram. And I would say starting with the one area is probably the best advice I could give. And um, I am a big believer in commenting over contenting, which hopefully reduces some content stress for anyone who's out there trying to think of what to post. Um, I absolutely believe that content is an excellent way to build brand and credibility, but it can also be a source of stress.

Chelsea Pipes (02:38):
And sometimes when we have stress, we just avoid doing it <laugh>. So, you know, being in sales and marketing on, in any kind of industry, it's all about your conversations and who you're talking to, and there's really no excuse to not going in and commenting and direct messaging your current clients, past customers, people that you might be referring business back and forth just to stay in contact and have those conversations because it's easy to do. You don't have to be on camera and it's totally free. It's right on your phone. So if we do that five to 10 minutes a day, maybe when you're having your coffee, your tea, maybe before you go to bed at night, maybe on your lunch break, it can really help train that algorithm in your favor and your comments become the content. And then you can move into phase two, three, and four of Instagram that I would say take it slow, take it one step at a time and make your number one priority conversations on that platform.

Stephanie Budnik (03:31):
Now, to that point, do you feel that it's important to have a separate account for a business type of relationship versus personal or you can kind of merge the two together?

Chelsea Pipes (03:41):
There isn't one, I would say, quote unquote right way to handle Instagram as far as how many accounts you should have. I have one account, and I am a big, big believer in creating a personal, relatable human brand. You at the end of the day, are your brand. And we have an advantage over a really large company, like let's say Nike, because Nike has to find faces and rent them or pay someone that's recognizable millions of dollars because they know that human beings connect with other human beings. So I don't think it's necessary that you have two separate accounts. If you prefer to have two, two separate accounts, it's perfectly fine. But if you are listening and thinking, Oh man, now I've gotta set up a whole nother business account. And that sounds like twice the work, it, it definitely is twice the work. Um, so you can be super successful with one account if you do prefer to keep one private for whatever reason you are selecting that you don't wanna show pictures of your children, that's perfectly fine.

Chelsea Pipes (04:45):
You will need something that is public and even that public quote business account needs to have some of your personality in it because we are building like no trust factor. And at least right now in 2021, we're not using Instagram quite like a search engine. So I'm not coming to Instagram or Facebook and thinking, I need to find a mortgage professional, I need to get a loan, I'm gonna go to Instagram. That's just not what we do yet. So we're not in the right mindset to receive sort of what I call advertisements that may not be reaching me because I'm not in that exact spot at that same spot that I might need that information. So you need to build a like no trust factor, and that needs to be a little bit more human content.

Stephanie Budnik (05:27):
Great. That makes you so much more relatable. I think to your point, having one account and managing one account makes it more real. It doesn't seem like you're trying to do two personas, but I, I understand the need, you know, for some individuals who want to have that separation. So when you're speaking about kind of having that one account or having an account and you're thinking about content, what kinda, you know, maybe you're in that phase two, you're past the commenting and you're into the content. How are you or what are you posting about

Chelsea Pipes (05:57):
And maybe what's not working? What are like things to stay away from? So I think it's kind of one of these, you know, horrible cliches that everything works and nothing, you know, doesn't, it's like, you know, you're always testing and that's one of the frustrating things about social is that, you know, even I'm always testing and I'm always trial and erroring. And essentially what I would recommend is, you know, you've got your, your general pillars of content. You have educational content, content that will position you as a credible resource and authority in your niche. You have entertaining content, which everybody loves to see. Personality, everyone loves to laugh. That's a little bit scary for a lot of people to, uh, that would be me <laugh>. I totally understand that. Um, and I would encourage you that, you know, entertaining content can also just be you as a human being.

Chelsea Pipes (06:47):
I mean, I have a lot of weird quirks and I, you know, share those on my stories, sort of that behind the scenes, that exclusive content, and that's very humanizing as well. We all like to watch reality TV and peek into the lives of people. Um, so I think that's something that's very connecting and there is magic in the mundane and the things that we all do every single day. So I think there's entertaining educational, there's also engaging content where you're asking for feedback and advice and a lot of people have an opinion. And often when you don't ask for it, they will share it with you on social media. So when you do ask for what's the next Netflix series I should watch, or whatever question of the day, it might be, it will elicit some more engagement and some more conversations. And that's really where we want to focus on because that algorithm is looking at data points.

Chelsea Pipes (07:39):
And every time you talk to someone or send a DM or a message or a comment that's a data point, and they're taking those data points and saying, Well, we have this information. So we're assuming that because they're commenting and talking to each other, we should show their posts more often and higher up in the feed to each one of those individuals. So when you are posting and it may be more educational in nature, they're more likely to see it. It doesn't mean that they might be still in that same mindset or ready to pounce on that right then and there, but you're still building that top of mind brand awareness. Another tip that I would have is the formatting of the posts. Highly, highly recommend multiple image posts right now. Um, they're actually technically called carousel posts, but I personally refer them as swipeable posts.

Chelsea Pipes (08:26):
So you can upload up to 10 images, um, and or videos, but I'm just talking specifically about images or graphics. So if you did have some tips of the day and instead of putting like three or four tips on one graphic, you can kind of put each one on a graphic and it can be swiped through. The nice thing about that type of format is Instagram shows those twice in the feed. So you're getting extra exposure and reach basically by doing nothing. Um, versus if you, you had just that one tip in a graphic, then you're only gonna get shown once. And also every time someone swipes to the next slide, it's a data point and you can earn more data points basically than if you had just that one image. So small little changes like that I think can definitely help. Um, right now the format Dejo is Instagram reels, <laugh>, um, and I know a lot of people think, well what, what can I do that's entertaining?

Chelsea Pipes (09:20):
That's about my industry, that's about, you know, specifically the mortgage industry. There are a lot of entertaining things that you can do. Um, it just takes a little bit of creativity and, and kind of thinking through how you can jump on a trend and make it relevant to your particular industry. So that's the number one format right now because Instagram's trying to get everyone to use it, and you're gonna get hundreds if not thousands of views on that particular format. So it is by default going to help you get seen more and more reach and also new followers to your account.

Stephanie Budnik (09:57):
I've noticed that even more recently that, you know, I, I'm frequently just swiping through, but then I'll see 'em again. It's like, I swear I saw something like this. You know? So to your point about the swipeable pictures and seeing them multiple times, it's, it's a real, it's a real thing. Um, you spoke about reels and I know that there's a lot, you mentioned there's a lot of different aspects and components of Instagram, so there's reels, there's stories, there's tv. Can you speak a little bit about what the benefit of each of them is and kind of the best ways to use each of their go if someone wants to use them?

Chelsea Pipes (10:32):
Yeah, basically Instagram is amazing at stealing other people's ideas, <laugh> to their platform. And apparently it's totally legal to do that. I mean, I even looked into it. So essentially what we have going on in Instagram is we have Instagram as we have known it for the last 10 years, the speed with pictures, then they put Snapchat in there, which is stories. Then they put YouTube in there, which is I G T V. And then they thought, you know what, let's put TikTok in here too. <laugh>. So we have variety of different formats that you could use within Instagram, and Instagram does like to promote the new thing. And so currently the new thing is Instagram reels, which is very similar to TikTok. It basically is TikTok inside of Instagram. So as far as when would I use each one and what's the benefit of combining them all, my very favorite format is stories.

Chelsea Pipes (11:27):
I think it's fast content creation, it's super, you know, human connecting. It's just me talking to the audience so I can have a really sort of intimate relationship with people that maybe aren't able to meet me in person and they get to follow along the daily journey of, of my life. And so I think that's a really, uh, great way to accelerate that community relationship. And that's where you have those one-to-one private conversations. So you develop a relationship through stories. Now, if I could do stories all day long and never post in the feed or do anything else, I would love that. However, really the only people that are gonna see my stories are people that are already following me. So if I want to grow and find new people, that's not going to be the format that's going to help me. It's going to solidify that like no trust.

Chelsea Pipes (12:12):
So I recommend everyday stories, stories about what you're doing throughout the day. Um, Gary v said it best document Don't create and just, you know, talk about what you're doing throughout the day, maybe a highlight of your day, how you're doing your morning routine and just chatting with people. Now the Instagram reels and I G T V, those are kind of polar opposites. One's micro video, one's macro video. So one's really short, 15 seconds, 30 seconds. One can be over a minute to 10 minutes. So, um, you wanna kinda use them in combination. This is really for you to get some reach. Um, they're gonna push these reels out into five different places, so you're gonna have a lot of eyeballs onto them. They're gonna then come to your profile, hopefully follow you, and then they get to like no trust you in the story.

Chelsea Pipes (12:57):
So it's this really nice combination of reach to get growth and then the stories to actually really kind of connect with people. Um, and then I look at I G T V as a place where once people have kind of gotten to know you, if they really wanna binge watch content like on YouTube and you have a series of really helpful educational content that they can deep dive in, then that's where they're going to be able to go. And the more people consume your content, the more data signals that you know, the Instagram receives. And also if you did wanna generate leads at some point with more paid campaigns, you can retarget people that have watched your videos. And if you're retargeting people that have watched your videos, especially binge watch videos, they're going to have a familiarity with your brand and therefore it's going to be sort of an easier conversion through that sales funnel because they already feel like they know you.

Stephanie Budnik (13:50):
Is there a time constraint at any of those where they, you know, we talk about Snapchat and those disappear. Is that similar functionality in Instagram and for the other pieces?

Chelsea Pipes (14:02):
Yes, Instagram stories will disappear within 24 hours. However, you can save them forever into what's called an Instagram story highlight that lives on your actual profile. And you can add, so if you're doing, you know, tips of the day or inspirational things, you can add them to that highlight and they can live there forever. So yes, they basically disappear, but you can also save them and, you know, collect them into sort of an album and they can live on your profile. Uh, and then reels an i gtv Live forever, those are permanent and they're actually gonna get a dedicated tab right on your profile. So when I think of like the profile, I really consider it to be like a website that happens to live on Instagram. And since we all know what a website is, there's different webpages that's going to live on that website.

Chelsea Pipes (14:47):
So all of these different areas like Instagram highlights and your Reels tab and your I GTV tab, they're different webpages, but they're all living on your main website, which is your profile. So now when someone goes to my profile, they have basically a menu, maybe they don't like to watch 10 minute videos, maybe they only wanna watch ten second videos, and so they can go to that tab, consume a bunch of videos, or if they wanna go over into my I GTV tab and they wanna really learn how to use Instagram and they wanna watch my 10 minute videos, they can go there. So it's kind of like giving something to everyone and all, all their different consumption styles and they can stay longer on my profile. And I mean, if I'm on Instagram, a lot of times the last place I go is to the website. I wanna deep dive and see everything right here. And then when I've decided, okay, this is somebody that I think I wanna connect with or work with, then I will go to that website. So I like to stay on Instagram, so when there is a lot of stuff there, it's really helpful for the consumer who's actually looking to stop all of the info.

Stephanie Budnik (15:49):
And when you're posting, so now you're on your page and you're, can you separately promote any of those things like in a post and to the post point hashtags? I know hashtags are a big thing on any social platform. Is it just as relevant here in, in, how do you recommend u the usage of those?

Chelsea Pipes (16:08):
So as far as the promoting posts, I'm not sure if you mean like in paid ad, like a kind of like a boosted post. Um, but you can do that, you can uh, promote or, you know, boost your posts. Um, I'm trying to think. You can't do that with reels yet, but you can make a story ad and you can also promote a feed post that you've made, uh, in the feed. And it's works similarly to sort of the Facebook boost. You can share feed posts to your Instagram story and you can also share your I GTVs and your reels to your own story. Ok. So you can kinda cross promote. So if somebody's really into stories and they're not looking the feed, as long as you're sharing your stuff into your story, um, they're still probably gonna be able to see it, which is nice.

Chelsea Pipes (16:50):
And then as far as hashtags go, I always refer to a dear friend of mine, an Instagram guru mentor, Jen Herman. Um, she has been writing about Instagram since its inception, so over 10 years. And she, um, is like the queen of hashtags. So she's got some incredible strategies and I'm just gonna share some of them and she shares them publicly, so she won't mind if I share, but I wanna give credit to her. Um, you know, first of all, I think that it's really important to be using relevant hashtags because a lot of times when we're thinking about just keywords, phrases, hashtags, let's use that interchangeably, it's just words with the symbol in front of it, that's the pound sign. Okay? And hashtags are there to help the system understand what your content's about and to sort and serve it to the right audience so that if I'm interested in small dogs or chihuahuas, I don't wanna see, you know, maybe golden retrievers.

Chelsea Pipes (17:42):
So I wanna get really narrow on that niche and find content that has to do with that. But oftentimes when we're thinking about our particular industry, we start to think, hmm, what industry am I in? What are words that describe that industry? And we need a segment of those because we do wanna tell Instagram what we're all about and what our niche is, however, are our customers looking for those words? So for example, if I am someone who is, um, maybe a potential home buyer or home seller, I'm not coming to Instagram and typing in hashtag realtor life, I'm coming there to look for home design, home decor, inspiration for those types of things. Farmhouse, you know, kitchens, um, um, and hyper local information about the community that I'm living in or want to live in. So we have to think about are all of your keywords and hashtags and phrases you're using, it's just describing your industry because you're not gonna attract consumers that way.

Chelsea Pipes (18:42):
So you do need to think about relevancy and um, also I recommend just doing all of your research, right within Instagram. They make it really easy. It's not difficult. It takes maybe 30 minutes one time to kind of go through and type in a word and look at the results and then decide if you want to use that. Um, to Jen Herman's, um, strategy, she's really focused on the sizes of these hashtags and you'll be able to see a number associated with every single hashtag you search in Instagram. And let's say it says, you know, 25,000, okay, that's the number that's next to it. That means there's 25,000 other posts that are using that hashtag. And so a another challenge is that I see a lot of people using really large, big hashtags, super popular, like hashtag real estate has like 50 million posts probably not gonna ring for that <laugh>.

Chelsea Pipes (19:31):
Um, so you, I stay in the smaller realms like four figures and five figures and six figures and um, that's kind of where I, I spend my time and that will help me kind of, you know, get, uh, some longevity. If people are searching for that content, they're more likely to see my posts and gives me a little bit of a chance to sort of bring for them. Um, but it's not the only factor. I mean it's not just like, Hey, I'm gonna do some hashtags and this is gonna help me nail it. Right. You know, you also have to have relevant keywords throughout your caption. Your photograph has to, or your video has to do with whatever it is you're talking about if you're using closed captioning. So it's not just relying only on hashtags and it's all consistency over time, showing up talking about the same stuff like for six months, a year, six years, right. So it's all of these factors built into one, but generally speaking, hashtags that are relevant to what people are searching and hashtags that aren't too big and you can use up to 30 in a post.

Stephanie Budnik (20:37):
Is there a good number of rule of thumb that you would stick around? I know sometimes I'm looking at them and they seem like novels and it's like I'm like still reading them to

Chelsea Pipes (20:45):
See Yeah, you know, know I generally try to do like 20 to 25. Um, I can't say that I've noticed personally anything massively different by using 30 or 27 versus 29. Um, in my mind I feel like if they give you up to 30, why not try to get all the way up there? And you know, it's kind of like, well I guess if I wanted to play the lottery, the more tickets I have, the more chances I have to win. Um, but I would also be really like specific, I think that you need to be kind of in one realm for your hashtags because if you're going all over the place, it's just a software system. It's just looking at all that. So my hashtags, even though I might have 25, are very related to each other. So they're still like in this genre. Um, you know, I've talked to Instagram directly about hashtags and the suggestion specific to reels was less, might be more <laugh>, highly relevant hashtags. So, um, I don't exactly have a scientific, um, you know, data point to say, Oh this is, this is the number you can read a million blogs that are all over the place from seven to 11 to 15 to 29. I generally go 20 to 25 and that's what I've been using.

Stephanie Budnik (22:03):
And it doesn't eliminate, it's not like you have to have all of these to meet like criteria. It's a more broad, so that's nice.

Chelsea Pipes (22:11):
Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Yeah, it's kinda like, you know, being in, you know, grade school where one test didn't determine your entire grade. Yeah. Or the, it's, you know, all the things put together.

Stephanie Budnik (22:22):
You, you mentioned a lot of really good points about Instagram and it's a lot of good things to think about. It makes it seem a little bit more tangible to start doing. Um, if you were to give one tip about something to start doing first besides um, the commenting for people that are scared, is there anything else that you would recommend?

Chelsea Pipes (22:41):
Yes, I would honestly recommend stories and committing to 90 days of posting stories every day. And I know that might sound overwhelming, but when you get the hang of, of the functionality of actually making it, whether it's a photo or a short video, and we're talking a few seconds, a few seconds, 2, 3, 10 second videos. Um, and it doesn't necessarily always have to be your face. It could be, you know, you describing your view while you're having your morning tea or you know, your dog playing in the backyard, whatever. It's okay. So it's only gonna take you less than two minutes a day to do that. And then once you get better at it, probably a minute a day cuz you're taking three second clips, seven second clips and you just wanna do a couple of them throughout the day. The reason I suggest that, not just because I'm a super fan of that format, but because it's going to actually help you get much more comfortable on camera.

Chelsea Pipes (23:42):
Even if you're going live, whether it's Instagram Live or Facebook Live, you're doing a YouTube video because you start to get comfortable on the camera, hearing your voice, seeing your face. I know that's difficult, but if you're doing it for 90 days, you're going to get more comfortable with it. The the skill set that you will develop for all other areas of video and even public speaking in a live audience will absolutely be impacted in a positive way from that stories piece. The other thing is that Instagram reels and TikTok, if you're thinking about trying those things, and I know i I listeners are are probably saying, <laugh>, I'm not gonna be dancing. It's not professional. Um, probably not gonna get new business on there. Well you can get business anywhere and you do not have to dance or lip sync you per you can if you want to, but you certainly do not have to.

Chelsea Pipes (24:34):
But what I will say is this trends, okay, and I'm gonna actually go outside of social media and talk about something that all relate to which is Uber. When Uber first came out, it was super bizarre to me. I never thought I was gonna get into a car with a stranger, let alone give them my address. I thought that was very strange and unsafe. But now fast forward, I've Ubered everywhere all the time. I feel perfectly safe in it because it got normalized, right? We got used to it. And what happens is the format for TikTok short for vertical video, typically more edited, possibly with music behind it, is definitely going to become pervasive. It is an Instagram, it's going into Facebook, YouTube has launched it as well. We need to look at the trend around formatting for content. If I start getting used to ten second videos, I may not wanna watch a 10 minute video.

Chelsea Pipes (25:26):
I might get so hooked on ooh, swipe new video, swipe new video, swipe new video. That that format is what we need to be focusing on or working into our content mix. So industry is completely irrelevant, but behavior treating is not. So keep your eyes out because in two years this is going to be a major, major format and if you are not showing up there and I'm used to watching ten second videos, I'm not gonna be seeing you. So that's my my thoughts on, on using like a TikTok or real or fill in the blank of whatever the next thing is gonna be that people are gonna say, Oh my, my clients aren't on there. I'm not gonna do, you know, dances or lip sync sits. You don't have to, but you might wanna pay attention to that format. <laugh>,

Stephanie Budnik (26:11):
I feel like I need to take your tip and try cause it's so, I mean those kind of things for me, I'm like, I can do a lot of different things. I do public speaking and those are okay, but being like that in the moment kind of even quick is something that seems a little bit more intimidating for some reason. So that's, that's a good tip.

Chelsea Pipes (26:29):
It's intimidating and you know, my first reels aren't what my reels are now. Um, and you know, how are you gonna get to the 30th, whatever it is, TikTok real video, if you don't do one, two and 3, 1, 2 and three, three isn't gonna be amazing, but you have to keep at it, try it out and you know, then you're like, oh, okay, I got those first couple out of the way. There's zero chance of getting to be better at something unless you do it. You can read a million to one blogs, you can go to 1200 webinars and until you actually get in there and do it, you will not get better at it and it's not gonna be amazing the first few times <laugh> completely cringeworthy, um, possibly. And yeah, so it's just like anything else, it's just like anything else. You have to actually get in there and do it and try it and fail your way forward and keep going.

Stephanie Budnik (27:26):
I like it. I think I, I might have to take you up <laugh> on it. <laugh>. Um, so the la the last question that I have for you is one that isn't even about Instagram or, or social platforms, but it is just what, what today keeps you up at night? What kind of things keep you up at night, whether it's what you're gonna do next or something totally out there, What keeps you up

Chelsea Pipes (27:47):
At night? Um, I thankfully don't have anything that stresses me, keeps me up at night. Um, that's good. I, I am, you know, as far as like new projects on the horizon, um, when I finished my second book, I was like, I'm never gonna do that again. I'm, I got that outta my system. So I'm just excited to, um, continue really thinking about what kind of educational content can I put out. So I'm trying to test all of the things and, and then, you know, help people understand what came out of that test as far as like work is concerned. Um, that's kind of like where I'm at him in testing mode and then making more content to help people to do that. I am looking forward to even maybe some in-person con conferences like at the end of this year. Um, but you know, I don't have anything that's like a burning issue that is keeping me up, which is great. So it's probably all the therapy that I did in 2020 <laugh>, which I highly recommend <laugh>.

Stephanie Budnik (28:48):
It's so surreal to think about in person things. Again, that's,

Chelsea Pipes (28:51):
I know, isn't it strange, I don't remember the last time I was like at the airport, so I don't, I don't miss <laugh> the airport Right. Lifestyle. Um, that's one thing I I have to say is that I'm really thankful for the time, uh, that I got to spend with family over the last, you know, year and some months. And I, I can't say that I missed the traveling, speaking lifestyle. <laugh>.

Stephanie Budnik (29:15):
Yeah. Well, Chelsea, thank you so much. I appreciate your time. I look forward to continuing to watch you and learn from your Instagram reels and things because I have learned even so much since, since just connecting with you. So thank you. All right. Have a great one and we'll talk to you soon. Thank you so much for listening. For all the latest industry insights, subscribe to Mortgage Connects with M G I C on Apple,

Stephanie Budnik (29:41):
Stitcher, or Spotify, or check out mortgageconnects.com. Until next time.

How can people start using Instagram for business?
Is it important to have a separate business and personal Instagram pages?
What content should we be posting about on Instagram?
What are benefits to using IG reels, stories and IGTV? What is the best way to use each of the different formats?
How important are hashtags, and how do you recommend using them?
What is one tip you can provide that someone can start doing today?