Spending your time wisely to maximize your social outreach

In our society, social media dominates how we reach our customers. Get insights from Kyle Draper, social media guru, about where you should be spending your time to reach your clients.  Learn how to leverage relationships and sell yourself. versus sell a product. 

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Transcript

Stephanie Budnik (00:02):
Hello, and welcome to our first podcast of Mortgage Connects by M G I C. Thanks so much for joining us as we explore the latest insights from top mortgage professionals around the industry. I'm your host, Stephanie Budnick. I came to M G I C back in 2015 with a background in teaching. I'm a natural listener who's passionate about making a difference in people's lives, and I'm interested in what has led other people to their success. Thanks for connecting. Let's dive into our first hot topic with Kyle Draper. Hey there, everybody. We have Kyle Draper here. He is a contact guru, a social media coach, and one of the best at helping real estate mortgage professionals struggle organically through social. Hi, Kyle.

Kyle Draper (00:44):
Hey, Stephanie. How are you?

Stephanie Budnik (00:46):
I am great. I'm so excited to have you here today and talk a little bit about how people can better reach organically on social. I know that's a thing that a lot of people struggle with

Kyle Draper (00:56):
It, They do struggle and I love talking about it, so we're gonna

Stephanie Budnik (01:00):
Fun. We're in the right place. All right. So I have a couple questions here for you. All right. And, and we'll go from there. So, as a lender, a lot of people wanna know, should I be using both business page and personal page on Facebook?

Kyle Draper (01:14):
Yeah, it's a great question. I I get it all the time. And lenders don't really know what to do because they're, they're not trained the right way. Right? Is that bad? Is that bad to say on here? Uh, because social media is unique and different, Stephanie, And so here's what, what people need to understand about the, the relationship between the business and the personal page. We all need business pages for multiple reasons. Number one, if we ever wanted to run an ad, if we ever wanted to spend money, we've gotta actually have a business page to in order to do that. Right. The, but the other, the other reasons are when I meet you, right? I didn't, when I was introduced to you, I didn't, I didn't know you at all. Right? You didn't know me at all. So when you just go look up my name, I don't know if you want a very personable Kyle that might have a profile picture with one of my kids strapped to my neck, or if you want my headshot looking like a professional. And so I want you to have both avenues because different personalities are different, right? Sure. And so, so that, that's the power of, of leveraging both the personal and the, the business page. The the final reason though, which is the, the absolute most important reason, we're never going to grow our business page without spending money.

Stephanie Budnik (02:38):
Okay?

Kyle Draper (02:39):
I, I have almost 3000 likes on my Coach Kyle Page, and I could post something today, and it might get one, like why? Because Facebook doesn't want me to be successful for free. They want me to spend money. And so if we want social media, if we want Facebook specifically in this question to work for us, we've gotta be leveraging our, our literal personal Facebook page, because that is where our relationships exist. That's where all my people are.

Stephanie Budnik (03:13):
That makes sense. And I understand completely what you're saying. I am the type of person that will look under both avenues. I may not, <inaudible> does, but wanting to know both sides of it. You wanna know you have a real person on the other end that

Kyle Draper (03:27):
100% you're talking to, and, and you know, and I think we under think we undervalue as lenders. Y'all are, y'all are a part of, Y'all are holding the hand of someone that's about to commit the most money they've ever committed in their whole life, ever. Right? And so I like, I don't want to just give that moment to some, like stick up their butt lender that just wants to be a professional all the time. I want it to be with someone that, gosh, dang it, if I've gotta spend the next eight weeks with you, <laugh>, I'd better like you. Right? Like, we better be able to talk about sports or, or talk about our families. Like something has to connect us beyond just, I closed a hundred deals last year. And, and so I think when, when we blend both pages, then we, we, we can begin to accomplish that.

Stephanie Budnik (04:22):
Okay. And is that whole true, um, in the instance of LinkedIn, you know, LinkedIn is a lot more professional than personal, being sure there isn't that, Do you recommend there being some of that person personal aspect to LinkedIn as well? Or is that just more of a Facebook?

Kyle Draper (04:40):
100%. And there, there's tons of experts out there that I, I'll have their own opinion and that's why I love the, I love this, right? I, I don't have the way, I have a way to do it. And, and so I love that about social media. There's not one way to be successful. I want personality in my content everywhere because that's me. I'm a personable guy. I like to be fun and engaging and make fun of myself. And so if I carried this, I'm very serious on LinkedIn, like the moment you met me, you'd be like, Wait, what?

Stephanie Budnik (05:19):
That's fake.

Kyle Draper (05:20):
Who, That's not you. Right? That's not you. And so now I'm not posting a picture of my dog on LinkedIn. Okay? So there are, there are things that we aren't going to allow to carry over, but be fun, you know, I do videos on LinkedIn all the time where I have a hat on because I like hats. I have literally a hundred of them in my closet. I, this is the third hat I've worn today. Fun fact. Wow. And so, and that's super weird. I don't even know why I told you that, because I don't know what that says about me. But

Stephanie Budnik (05:52):
You like change.

Kyle Draper (05:54):
I had on a trashier hat and I was like, You know what? I'm about to do a podcast. I need to step up my game and, and put my like suit hat on. And I just, I, I want people to see my personality in everything that I do. And so I 100% think that that should be a part of, of the way we project ourselves on LinkedIn.

Stephanie Budnik (06:12):
Great. That kind of leads me into the next question about talking about video. Video is a touchy subject for a lot of people. Some people don't, aren't comfortable with it. Yeah. They don't feel that they have the face for it. It, it makes them uncomfortable, gives them anxiety. How do you feel about video? And is it really a must?

Kyle Draper (06:31):
So Stephanie, people need to get over themselves for real. Like you, you can see me right now. We're, we're recording this on video. You know, people will be listening to it. So you can see I'm not the world's most beautiful human, but I'm not the ugliest, right? I am very average. And guess what, you know, who knows that all of my friends

Stephanie Budnik (06:59):
<laugh>,

Kyle Draper (07:00):
All of my friends, they know how good looking I am. They know how skinny I am, how fat I am. They know what my voice sounds like. They know my level of education, right? And so when, when we have men and women that, that say, Oh, I don't know that I have the face for that. I'm more of a radio kind of guy or gal, You still go to coffee with people. You, you don't, you don't no-show your lunch appointment at Chili's because you looked in the mirror that day and went, Nope, I'm not leaving today. I'm not. No. We, we don't carry any of these insecurities when we're talking about being in real life with people. But all of a sudden I point this little device at you, right? Which we call a cell phone for those of, since we're not on video for the podcast, the minute I do this, people go, Well wait, Well what, what, what do I, what do I do?

Kyle Draper (07:55):
What, what do I do with my hands? What are, what are these, Do I even know English words anymore? And all we did was literally turn a camera on, right? It it is, it is the wildest thing. And, and so here is why we have to get over this video is the only form of marketing that works for me, whether I'm working or not. When, you know, I travel and speak, Well, I did before Covid. And, and so I still teach locally a lot in Dallas Fort Worth where I live almost every time. If I'm teaching a class at 11:00 AM I go live beforehand so that while I'm teaching that video is out there on social media working on my behalf, you can't do that with anything else. Right? I I also, I also run into people and, and I have, uh, you know, lender friends that this happens to all the time as well.

Kyle Draper (08:51):
I will, I will be on a sales call and, and I think that I need to pitch myself. And literally they're like, No, I'm good. I already, I already watched all your videos, like, how do we get started? And I go, Well wait, you don't, But do you know how much it costs? Yeah, I already, I already, I already did that. Oh, do you know like what we do? Yeah. I already, I already saw all that. And it's so weird how we can bypass the sales process with people literally because we've given them access to us online through video. It's unbelievable.

Stephanie Budnik (09:26):
That is, that's a unique point that you make. It's just so different on how the world operates now and what they have access to beforehand it, that that pitch almost isn't needed in some instances.

Kyle Draper (09:37):
It, it's, it's not needed at all, right? People can go and get whatever they want from us and about us online. And so, like my parents who've been wildly successful, they're in their mid sixties, you know, my dad would argue like, but I love coffee appointments and I do too, but while he has one coffee, I can do a video and go touch a hundred people. And so it's not saying that one is, is awesome and one is bad. We've just gotta recognize that a lot of people now, they're stuck in this mindset of like, video isn't personable. And I just believe that, that when we do it as ourselves, people can now watch us online and then meet us in person and they can go, Wow. Like you're as fun in person as you are on video. And that's super powerful. That wasn't even available for us 15 years ago.

Stephanie Budnik (10:36):
Yeah. It's the new normal almost now. So I think that, that, that speaks volumes to the fact that when you do have that moment to interact on a personal level face to face, that it is the same and they have that feeling that they know you. Right?

Kyle Draper (10:49):
100%. And can I add one thing before, before we jump into the next part? So I, I was talking to a, a buddy on the phone this morning, actually, he's not a buddy that's, that's bad. He's my mentor and I value him in that way. Um, and he goes, I just sent someone a video text message and they loved it, <laugh>. And I started laughing. I was like, Yeah, like, I've been doing that for years, <laugh>. So, so we don't have to just think about video in terms of like YouTube and Facebook Live, right? There's so much power in you just text me. And, and so instead of me saying thank you, there's so much power in me pulling up my camera and going, Stephanie, thank you so much. You have no idea what that text meant to me. Have an awesome day. There's so much power in you getting to watch me articulate that to you. Then just receive it back in words. If it means a different feeling,

Stephanie Budnik (11:52):
Absolutely. The tone. You know how you could read, uh, the same meshes 10 different ways. You can't

Kyle Draper (11:58):
100%

Stephanie Budnik (11:58):
For the video

Kyle Draper (11:59):
<laugh>. No. And, and see, so that's a great point too, because I am a exclamation mark. Texter.

Stephanie Budnik (12:06):
<laugh>. I wouldn't,

Kyle Draper (12:07):
Okay. I I know that that was rude. Are you, Was that, was that be that

Stephanie Budnik (12:12):
Was a little fast little

Kyle Draper (12:13):
Sass. That was, that was sassy. This is, Do we know each other well enough for you to be that sassy with me as

Stephanie Budnik (12:18):
Of now? Um,

Kyle Draper (12:19):
That's right. Now we do. So I just am an excited person. And so I love, like when I use a period in a text, my wife is like, What's wrong? And, but, but people that don't know me, I've used exclamation mo exclamation marks and they're like, Whoa, bro, why are you yelling at me? And so you're absolutely right. So much tone can get lost. And, and so when we do video, nobody ever wonders where we stand. And it's powerful.

Stephanie Budnik (12:47):
I, I like the power behind video, um, coming with maybe video and what to talk about kind of goes hand in hand with what really we should be talking about on social. Yeah. For us, I'm in the mortgage industry. The mortgage industry is not the most glamorous thing to talk about all the time. Yeah, I know. News break.

Kyle Draper (13:09):
No way.

Stephanie Budnik (13:09):
Yeah. But, you know, what do you recommend that people are frequently talking about on social?

Kyle Draper (13:16):
So it, that's a great question. I, I think first of all, we've, we've gotta realize that whether we think our, our industry is like the, the so-called like sexy topic to talk about or not, it is what it is, right? Everyone is going to need a mortgage, which means, like it or not, you're gonna need to be educated about it. And so I, I don't want the people that'll listen to this podcast to, um, feel like they can't talk about lending because they absolutely need to. And so the, the first thing that we need to understand about content is I wish lenders would, would realize the power is in being an educator of mortgage, not a salesperson of mortgage. Stop selling mortgages to people and start educating people as to who you should be. If this loan is the best one for you, what this option over here, which requires nothing down, right?

Kyle Draper (14:13):
Give people opportunity to learn without feeling like the moment they peek through the window, you're gonna go chase them down trying to get, you know, money from 'em and, and try to sell 'em really hard. And so talk about lending, but do it in, in, in a way that's educating. If you're fun, bring humor to it. What, what does that mean? I don't know. You could, you could talk about, you know, you could do a Mortgage Minute video dressed as a different avenger every time, right? Like if you're big into, in, in, into Avengers, right? You could do one is Spiderman and one is Thor, and people would think it was awesome. So we can be creative with the so-called boring stuff. But then we've also, what what we don't think about is we can bring in the personal aspects of us and that can do more for our business, then the business actually can.

Kyle Draper (15:13):
And so what I mean by that is, I, before I started doing this, I used to be a pastor. And so I worked with teenagers for almost 10 years. And so I do a lot of spiritual videos because I'm passionate about it right now. I'm not a weirdo that's trying to like beat people over the head with a Bible and like tell people that they're going to hell like a crazy person, right? I just, I just love Jesus a lot. And so I, I can't tell you how many clients I've got because we share that in common. I also love the Dallas Cowboys. I'm wearing a Dallas cowboy hat today. So I can relate to people through that, right? I can do a video about, about the cowboys and other cowboys. Fans are going to be connected to me, other football fans in general. And so we've gotta let people in.

Kyle Draper (16:04):
I will also do, do live videos where I know my kids are gonna come home and they're gonna come in behind me and they're gonna be like, Dad, what are you doing, Dad? Hey dad, I want a sandwich. Hey everyone, right? And, and, and so it gives me a moment to pull in my son or my daughter. And now I'm reminding you that I'm also a dad. This is powerful, right? Because Stephanie, what people don't understand about, or well, they do get this about sales, but they don't think about it with social media, is in order to do our jobs as salespeople, we've gotta find common ground. Like that's a whole point of, of, of a sales call is to find common ground. Talking about non-business things is the easiest way to find common ground. Another way we can do it, I read books sometimes, and this is people can't see, but this has like pictures in it.

Kyle Draper (17:01):
This is like an adult picture book that I really love. And so what people also don't think about is what sells more than the actual book, the cliff notes of that book. Why? Because most people don't wanna real read the whole book. And so I will take a quote from a book that I'm reading, and then I'll jump on video and go, Guys, I just gotta share this with you. This quote, I'll read it just jumped off the page at me and I just wanna talk about it. Stephanie, it's powerful because most people aren't gonna go read this book, but they trust me enough to talk about it. So literally there's nothing we can't talk about that can't ultimately turn into being business for us.

Stephanie Budnik (17:48):
Empathy. Connections. Relations. That makes sense.

Kyle Draper (17:52):
Even politics.

Stephanie Budnik (17:55):
Wow. I thought that was like a no, that

Kyle Draper (17:57):
Was, I know, right? I'm about to, I'm about to blow people's minds. Okay? Think about it like this. Let's say that you love either color, right? I'm not even gonna say the colors in order cuz somebody's gonna go, He said that one first. That's probably what he is, right? We're not even gonna say the colors. The the beauty of our world is if I claim allegiance to one of the colors and I'm passionate about it, yes, I'm gonna lose people, but I'm also gonna gain people, right? So talk about what you're passionate about, even if it means you might lose some people along the way, because even as you lose some, you're gonna grow deeper with others. And that could result in a lot of referrals that could result in, in, in more opportunity, right? And so I used to say no to politics, no to religion. Now I say just know the cost.

Stephanie Budnik (18:49):
Okay?

Kyle Draper (18:50):
If you know the cost and you're cool with it,

Stephanie Budnik (18:55):
The the, do you, the people in your team are gonna be more like you, you know? 100%.

Kyle Draper (19:00):
Yep. Sure.

Stephanie Budnik (19:02):
Going off of, you know, we talked about Facebook, we talked about LinkedIn. Is there a platform that you would say would be best for someone to focus on here in 2021 in the future to continue to grow their business?

Kyle Draper (19:15):
Yeah. So it all comes back to who do you wanna serve, right? If, if, if lenders are listening to this that are, uh, they love first time home buyers, right? So they're gonna be dealing with people that are 26 to 38 years old, right? Well, those people, if you look at data that that's gonna be a little bit more of a, of an Instagram audience. If people, you know, if lenders would say, you know, I'm 55, I really tend to attract 50 and 60 year olds, that's gonna be more of a Facebook audience. If we've got lenders listening that are like, fresh outta college, and they thought they were gonna go be something, and this random lender was like, You should come sell mortgages. Isn't that what you've dreamed of your whole life? And, and now they're finding themselves in this mortgage space. They could be the 22 year old lender that crushes it on, on TikTok because that crowd currently is, is younger, but getting older. So that what, what what I'm trying to get at is I hate when the so-called experts like myself answer that question with, Oh my gosh, if you're not using Instagram, you're an idiot.

Stephanie Budnik (20:35):
Cause the two you're reaching,

Kyle Draper (20:36):
It doesn't matter like, because what if your audience is an Instagram? Right? So, so for those listening, first identify and a line with who do you want to serve? And then go, where are they? Right? Where are they? If, if I want to go fishing, I can't go into the woods or I can go, Wait, what? There's no fish here. Yeah, dummy, there's no water. So we've gotta identify like, who do we wanna serve? Where are they? And then we proceed accordingly. I I think every platform has potential to be wildly beneficial to anyone if they stay committed and, and actually put in the work. Because what most lenders do is they just suck at all of 'em, right? Somebody told 'em Facebook was great, they're doing Facebook, The next person told 'em Instagram, now they're also doing Instagram. The next person was like, What? You're not on TikTok bro, You gotta get on TikTok. And now they're on TikTok and now they're doing YouTube, and now they're doing, and, and now they look up and they're like, they're just terrible at all of it. And so I would go backwards, pick the one thing that over the next 90 days you are gonna go and be committed to so that you can come out of it 90 days later actually being good at something instead of just limping into everything.

Stephanie Budnik (22:07):
Now, do you think for an Instagram standpoint, cause I know previously when I spoke to lenders, it was really the focus on Facebook and LinkedIn and having that presence, uh, now moving more towards Instagram or depending on the audience, right? Yeah. Are you just, are you a lot more personal only there, or is there still a professional place to be had on an Instagram and TikTok type of account? Or is it more just here's my life?

Kyle Draper (22:35):
Yeah, I, I think, I think we're seeing people win, doing all of it. You know, I know some lenders that they have like 50,000 followers on, on, uh, on TikTok, and literally all they do is is mortgage videos. And I look at it and go, How, how did you do this? Like no one cares. 50,000 people do, right? Who am I? And, and that's what I've learned, Stephanie, is who gives the crap what I think? And I know like I'm the guest on this show, so that's probably terrible for me to say that, but it just, there's so many ways to do this. Well, the only way to fail is to stop. If you refuse to stop and then you're willing to take feedback and criticism in order to be better, you are going to succeed. Right? I love the, I love trying to use both on Instagram that it's, it's about being personable, but it's also about being business. Because on Instagram it's about a brand and a, and a brand tells a story deeper than just the product it sells, right? It tells the stories of the people that represent it. This is why you can watch Nike. And 10 years ago it was literally a commercial of Serena Williams hitting a tennis ball.

Kyle Draper (23:59):
Now it's Serena Williams wearing the same matching outfit as her two year old daughter teaching her how to swing, right? It's not even about tennis anymore, it's about relationship. But that relationship is gonna sell more stuff. And as we begin to understand that we'll get way more comfortable selling us and not some sort of product or portfolio that we have to offer.

Stephanie Budnik (24:31):
I feel like I could go out there today and do more just based on that alone.

Kyle Draper (24:35):
<laugh>. You, you can and you should

Stephanie Budnik (24:39):
<laugh>. Well, you know what, I'm, I'm going to, I will put that in my 90 day plan.

Kyle Draper (24:43):
Good.

Stephanie Budnik (24:45):
Um, I wanna know if you have a big secret that you can share that lenders should leverage today on social media.

Kyle Draper (24:53):
Oh, a big secret.

Stephanie Budnik (24:55):
Yes. Everyone likes a secret.

Kyle Draper (24:57):
Yeah, I, you know, I, I'm not really a secret guy. Um, I'm a pretty open book almost my wife would say too open, um, start with stories. That's what I'll say. You know, stories are, are are are dynamic there. There's so many different ways you can do them. And, and what I love about stories is you can't go longer than 15 seconds. And so it's kind of like the baby step into learning how to do video because you're tapped out at 15 seconds. Like you literally can't talk longer than that. So it, it's short and sweet, but it's not as committed and all in as a live video would be. And so it's just a great way to kind of dip your toes in the water and it's gone 24 hours from now. And so it's very low pressure, right? Because if it sucked, guess what? In 24 hours it won't even be there and no one that didn't see it doesn't know, right? And so if that's a secret, that's what I would say.

Stephanie Budnik (26:05):
That's a good, that's a good tip tip for trade. I like it. At first I was thinking that you were telling me to tell you a story, but you are referencing something else in, uh,

Kyle Draper (26:15):
Yeah, so maybe I should have explained the stories. Yes. If you, what what we're talking about is the stories feature on Facebook, on Instagram. LinkedIn has 'em now too. YouTube also has them.

Stephanie Budnik (26:31):
Oh,

Kyle Draper (26:33):
Okay. Maybe that was the secret I just

Stephanie Budnik (26:35):
Revealed. That was mind blowing. I didn't know that. I knew the other ones, but

Kyle Draper (26:38):
I don't, I don't use YouTube u uh, YouTube stories, but they are there and, and it's powerful. So there you go.

Stephanie Budnik (26:46):
Well, that, it was extremely insightful and I think that a lot of the information that you shared are easy practices that people can start doing today. It isn't something that you need to plan meticulously for. You can start now.

Kyle Draper (26:59):
Start now, right? The, I don't know who said it, but you can't change what you don't start. Absolutely. And so many lenders are out there going, I know I need to do this. I know I need to be better. And so they're gonna go buy a course, they're gonna go to a seminar, they're gonna go try to read a book all the while they're doing nothing. Just go,

Stephanie Budnik (27:25):
Just

Kyle Draper (27:25):
Do it. Just do it. And, and you'll be blown away what happens. And your people are gonna love you the whole way through, even if you say something dumb or, or you mess up

Stephanie Budnik (27:36):
Because it makes you authentic.

Kyle Draper (27:39):
100%. We're gonna watch this or watch this, We're gonna listen to this podcast back five years from now and we'll be like, Can you believe that you said that? What an idiot. <laugh>. But think about how much smarter that I'll be because I got all my idiot idiot outta the way, you know?

Stephanie Budnik (27:54):
There you go. Well, I have one last question for you, and that is one that I am interested to know. But what is the one thing that keeps you up at night?

Kyle Draper (28:04):
Okay, so this gonna be a really lame answer.

Stephanie Budnik (28:08):
I'm not prepared for lame.

Kyle Draper (28:10):
Well, I apologize <laugh>. I, I I do not lose sleep period, ever. And, and, and here's why. I I truly believe that tomorrow is full of new opportunity every single tomorrow. And, and so I've learned in my life that if I go to bed beating myself up for something that didn't happen today, I'm preparing myself to also not do it tomorrow. And so I have just developed this ability to go, it's over. Today's over. I can't do anything else about it. And guess what? If I don't sleep, I can't do tomorrow anyway. And so I truly don't lose sleep. Well, my wife and I can be talking about something and four seconds later I am gone

Stephanie Budnik (29:06):
<laugh>.

Kyle Draper (29:07):
And that's just how I roll. And, uh, so yeah, I I'm sure in the future you're gonna interview people that give you just such incredible answers and that are so deep and profound. But

Stephanie Budnik (29:19):
You know what, I'm gonna look at the diversity of the answers and I like yours. It's unique. So, Well, I'll take it.

Kyle Draper (29:25):
Well, thank you. Thank you for making me feel good about myself. Mm-hmm.

Stephanie Budnik (29:28):
<affirmative>. No problem. Well, Kyle, thank you so much for your time today. I really appreciate

Kyle Draper (29:32):
It. You're so great at this

Stephanie Budnik (29:34):
<laugh>. Well, thank you. Thanks for having me so much. And we will talk to you soon.

Kyle Draper (29:38):
All right,

Stephanie Budnik (29:39):
Thanks. Thanks listening. For all the latest industry insights, subscribe to Mortgage Connects with M G I C on Apple, Stitcher, or Spotify, or check out mortgageconnects.com.